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Jr. Estimator seeking advice

Last post 10-15-2008 9:26 PM by Granrey. 23 replies.
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  • 11-27-2007 9:30 AM

    • Micah
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 11-20-2007
    • Baltimore
    • Posts 2

    Jr. Estimator seeking advice

    I am searching for the answers on the "how to" rules for finding a great Jr. Estimator position with a new organization. I have a good background on residential construction and minor project management as well as sales. I am attending the Construction Estimator Institute for sitework estimating. The class revolves around earthwork, underground utilities and roads/paving. Even though I am extremely motivated, I am note sure how much my efforts will help push me forward. If anyone has suggestions, direction or employment information in the Baltimore/DC area, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a mil.

  • 11-27-2007 11:23 AM In reply to

    • Nate
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 11-20-2007
    • Oakbrook
    • Posts 4

    Re: Jr. Estimator seeking advice

     

    Micah- 
    I saw there was no response to your post. 


    Our site page is not done yet but is functional enough to get you started:
      http://bidtool.net/careerhub/

     

    You may also try posting your education and profile here:
    www.zoominfo.comwww.linkedin.comwww.spoke.comwww.xing.comwww.merchantcircle.comwww.ziggs.comwww.ryze.comwww.facebook.comwww.ecademy.com

    If were you I would create a profile on the free career hub/ career builder page then paste similar information from your resume into new profiles listed above. This should get you more than enough exposure, while providing additional options should you end up landing a career that is not to your liking.

     

    Good Luck!

     

    Nate

    Direct~ 888-506-7613 x 8311
    Email~ nboe@bidtool.net
    Fax~ 800-817-7252
  • 11-27-2007 3:46 PM In reply to

    Re: Jr. Estimator seeking advice

     

    Micah-

    the best place for a junior estimator is at an ASPE chapter meeting learning from the old pros.

    You can learn more at:  http://www.aspenational.com/1chapters.html.

    The ASPE online classes are state of the art: www.aspeeducation.org

    Edward B. Walsh
    Executive Director
    ASPE National
    EDWALSH@ASPENATIONAL.ORG
    877-273-5679
    www.aspenational.org
    edwalsh@aspentional.org
  • 12-07-2007 4:25 PM In reply to

    • Micah
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 11-20-2007
    • Baltimore
    • Posts 2

    Re: Jr. Estimator seeking advice

    Thanks for the advice Nate. I will look into it.  Micah

  • 12-29-2007 4:54 AM In reply to

    • KinneyCPE
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 12-29-2007
    • Chicago, IL
    • Posts 1

    Re: Jr. Estimator seeking advice

    I can't recommend strongly enough how important it is to get hooked up with a local ASPE chapter.  Contact the chapter president to find out what's going on in the area. I've been in this business for 36 years, and hookep up with ASPE since 1978, certified in 1982, and my entire career has been very successful as a result of ASPE. Get hooked up with ASPE, your efforts will be well rewarded.

    Call me if you need help.

    Chris Kinney, CPE

    cell: 610-304-5059

    Christopher L. Kinney, CPE for 25 years
    cell: 610-304-5059
  • 01-07-2008 2:30 PM In reply to

    • Markafly
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 11-05-2007
    • College Station, Texas
    • Posts 23

    Re: Jr. Estimator seeking advice

    Learn as much as you can regarding LEED and Estimating Software!

     

    Paper will be dead soon!

     

     


  • 01-15-2008 9:41 AM In reply to

    • SStaley
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 11-20-2007
    • Los Angeles, California
    • Posts 1

    Re: Jr. Estimator seeking advice

    Welcome aboard,

    I will echo the other's push for the ASPE, the old dogs do have some tricks and are an invaluable reasource for networking.  If you want to continue to pursue sitework estimating you may want to check in with some local civil engineers or landscape architects or even local public works agencies.

    Good luck.

    S. Staley, LEED-AP
  • 02-01-2008 10:49 PM In reply to

    • Bigjohn
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 02-02-2008
    • Houston, TX
    • Posts 1

    Re: Jr. Estimator seeking advice

    Micah, i will advise you to consider the option of joining the local ASPE in your area. I was in the same shoe like you when i came to USA barely over a year now. I was totally lost. The first step i took was attending ASPE meeting, to my surprise everyone accepted me and they showed me the direction. The second step was enrolling in ASPE's online estimating classes. These two steps i took worked for me. One thing is to know what you want and the other is to have the determination to go for it. I can see you getting a job soon.

  • 04-09-2008 11:01 AM In reply to

    • Paulette
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-09-2008
    • Southern CA
    • Posts 2

    Re: Jr. Estimator seeking advice

    Micah,

    The construction industry is desperate for estimators.  I cannot imagine that you will be unemployed for long.  Everyone is right, if you want to get a job as an estimator you need to make a connection with other estimators.  Go to those ASPE meetings, talk to the people there, they are going to know who is hiring.  Then once you get the job, work hard, put in the time it takes to become skilled at your job.  If you are a good estimator, you will have a secure future.  There aren’t enough estimators to fill the positions that will soon become available as the boomer generation retires, so it’s looking good for you.

     

    Paulette
  • 04-14-2008 8:11 AM In reply to

    Re: Jr. Estimator seeking advice

    Look in the ASPE National Job Search web site.  www.aspenational.org/Employment.htm

    Call your local Builders Exchange and ask if you can have a free 2 week trial.  I don't know if they give free trials to individuals.  If they do, check out jobs that are bidding in your area and work fields you are interested in and see who is bidding.  These are the companies that do work in your fields of interest.

     Look in www.thebluebook.com and search in your areas, Washington DC or Maryland, and enter a Keyword for the fields you are interested in.  that will get you a list of local contractors.

  • 08-27-2008 3:56 PM In reply to

    • tnobd
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-27-2008
    • Posts 11

    Re: Jr. Estimator seeking advice

    Paulette,

                  I cannot agree with your statement regarding job security for estimators. As a long time (over 20 years) estimator for a residential builder of single family and mult-family structures, I have had little luck looking for work, after my former employer eliminated 75% of their estimators/superintendents in late June.

    I have a construction management degree (BT) and working experience with the Timberline/Sage and FAST softwares', but there seems to be no opportunities for crossover jobs in commercial work (at least in my case). I find it ironic that commercial contractors are looking for construction personel on the NAHB Career Site. Some of the posted jobs even state " applicants with residential backgrounds will not be considered for these positions." I performed hundreds of sales/buyout estimates in Timberline and FAST. I have also built hundreds of options in both softwares'. But, I sure don't see a lot of contractors desperate for estimators, if they have a residential background.

    I  do agree with you on the ASPE route for commercial estimating work. I was in a chapter in the early 90s. I passed the technical paper portion of the requirements, but didn't pass the written tests. I  wasn't prepared for the questions on the GEK, probably because I wasn't familiar with the general project management information, since I didn't work in that sector of the industry. Unfortunately the workshop I attended didn't really help me, but I am sure that varies from chapter to chapter. I decided not to keep attending the chapter meetings or try to retake the test for the CPE, which was probably the biggest professional mistake I ever made.

    My advice to the original poster:

    Do not choose the residential industry for a long term estimating position. The housing industry does not have enough opportunities in estimating and project management  for a long term professional estimator. Make sure you obtain your CPE in any of the commercial estimating disciplines. Then as Paulette mentioned, you will be able to apply for any position in the enormous commercial sector.

     

    Good Luck,

    MIke

     

     

     

  • 08-28-2008 9:12 AM In reply to

    Re: Jr. Estimator seeking advice

    I agree about estimators with residential backgrounds having a harder time crossing over to commercial.  Mike's statement tells why.  "I wasn't prepared ... , I didn't work in that sector ..."  The sleeveless T shirt, tennis shoe construction methods of the residential sector just isn't experience for commercial construction. 

    I have seen bid results lately from reporting services like iSqFt where residential contractors are trying to cross over.  Often times they bid $1 mill projects and come in 25 to 30% below the second bidder.  An architect or owner that jumps at a bid like that deserves what they get.  By the time the contractor and his subcontractor's get to compliance with the general specifications, they realize their bid was not enough to do the project. 

    I am an estimating consultant with 35 years of commercial construction experience.  I have clients that wish to make that crossover.  After talking to them for hours and giving them free advice on what they must do to bid commercial work, I usually lose a client after I tell them what it's going to cost, including my fees.  Then they try to bid commercial work anyway on their own.  Six months later they are back with stories about jobs where they lost money and we go thru the same thing again.  With the same results.

    A new estimator right out of school, whether it's college or a Timberline training session, has a better chance at commercial estimator's job than someone with 20 years of residential experience.  20 years of doing it wrong is hard to re-learn and contractors know that.  For example, look at the National ASPE web site and read the Cannon of Ethics.  Then tell me how many residential estimators/project managers follow those guidelines.  That's a difficult mentality to overcome.

  • 08-28-2008 2:57 PM In reply to

    • Paulette
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-09-2008
    • Southern CA
    • Posts 2

    Re: Jr. Estimator seeking advice

    Mike,

    You're correct, it is not easy to make the transition between residential & commercial construction and that goes for both directions.  Sometimes you have to back off and approach a change like that from a different angle.  If I were trying to go for a job in commercial construction after such a long time in residential, I'd be looking for small contractors to approach.  Start with a contractor doing small strip malls, or office TIs (Tenant Improvements).  Admit that to them that you realize you are entering a new field, but that you are willing to work hard,  At least you should be familiar with some, if not all, of the terminology.  I went from 10 years of selling finish hardware to contractors, to working for a GC.  Now, I went back to school for two years, and I understand that not everyone can do that, but my point is, that I realized I was starting over.

    The commercial industry is starving for estimators.  If you are willing to work hard, admit you don't know everything but are willing to learn from others, it shouldn't matter how old you are or whether you are a man or a woman, you should be able to find a job.  I know of a gentleman that has just changed jobs and he is 77!  Now that is job security.

    Paulette

  • 08-28-2008 3:53 PM In reply to

    • tnobd
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-27-2008
    • Posts 11

    Re: Jr. Estimator seeking advice

    Quantity Engineer,

    Obviously I have a lot of time on my hands these days.

           I am afraid this is what I wrote " I  wasn't prepared for the questions on the GEK, probably because I wasn't familiar with the general project management information, since I didn't work in that sector of the industry. Unfortunately the workshop I attended didn't really help me, but I am sure that varies from chapter to chapter".

     I didn't mention the trades attire. You can bash my background, but there is no reason to insult the trades that do the real work in this country. 

    Also, 

    Folks can learn new things after 20 years, or they would restrict the ages of the students in all of our universities and technical schools.

    Timberline/Sage makes products for all sectors of the industry.

    IMO: 

    If you are willing to work hard, like I did in my discipline, you can learn how to estimate a lot of different projects, with much larger scopes of work.

     

    The crossover bidders you spoke about have to learn how to bid commercial projects, just like you did 35 years ago. They have the option to keep trying or they can do something else.  

     As far as the ASPE ethics you mentioned, I am sure you are referring to "bid peddling" as the biggest violation.

    There are few project estimators/managers in residential work. Estimators in residential work have purchasing and scheduling duties too. But they usually are not considered project managers. Most housing builders do not have the budgets for separate purchasing agents, that do not take-off material/trade contractors or labor. The only true estimators/project managers in the residential sector are small builders that do all of the construction management functions for their businesses. Most of the time they use bid management before they present a price to a customer. The rely on the lumber supplier, mechanical material suppliers, or trades to do the detail work, rather then take-off the labor or material themselves.

    I am quite familiar with how some residential builders do not follow the ASPE cannon of ethics. I worked for a larger residential company that had staff estimators. I performed hundreds of sales estimates during that time using Timberline software. I used both the DOS and Windows version of the software. I would spend a lot of time preparing lump sum bids. I would take-off every detail, obtain quotes for special requests, and supply endless option prices that customers requested. In most cases we would not get the work. It was usually 20-25% higher then the small builders that I was competing against. In most cases the smaller builders asked the customer to peddle the bid. They would instruct the customer to get our bid and they would create a cost plus contract. The bid would be at least 20% lower then mine.  The plus percentage was usually 15%. I talked to a few of the customers that used the cost plus contractors. Most of them said they paid more then our original bid. So be careful about how you describe the folks that actually do the estimates in residential work. They really don't have a reason to work without ethics. It is usually the customer that takes your proposal price, and asks the smaller builders, for lower prices.

    I never thought I had any mentality, that was particularly incorrect?

    Mike 

     

     

     

     

  • 08-28-2008 5:14 PM In reply to

    • tnobd
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-27-2008
    • Posts 11

    Re: Jr. Estimator seeking advice

    Thanks Paulette and Quantity Engineer,

                      Both of you are confirming a fear that I have had concerning my resume. The commercial contractors must see the word "residential" and  20 years of experience and are probably sending my resume/cover letter to the recycle bin. The problem I am encountering, is that I rarely talk to a estimator or a project manager when I do get a contact. I talk to someone that asks me about relocation or tries to figure out my age, by asking me, what year my degree was given to me. They don't ask me questions about the 16 division estimating format (I believe that has been changed) or any technical questions. So I am talking to recruiters or HR folks (that rarely call).

     So I don't really think I will find a position in commercial construction, unless I can actually talk to someone that is willing to talk to me about estimating in that sector. I have tried cold calling commercial firms companies, but they usually  tell me to send a resume/cover letter to their online website.

    If there is such a desperate demand for commercial estimators, you would think companies would take a chance on older candidates with construction backgrounds? Kids just out of school think they know it all too. I spent plenty of hours in front of a boring computer screen taking off plans. I doubt may of them know how stressful it is to concentrate for long hours on a plan with a deadline looming.  

    I do like Paulettes advice about smaller commercial contractors. The few companies that I have had contact with (usually via e-mail) are contractors that do both commercial and residential work.  

    Quality Engineer's comments seem pretty cold, but at least he is giving me the honest feedback that I am not getting from potential employers.

    This is a great forum.  

    Thanks,

    Mike

     

     

     

     

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